Land Your Dream Job / My Interview With Career Coach Nic Frick
The pandemic has disrupted the careers of so many people the world over, but women in particular have been hit hard. Whether you’re looking to get back into the workforce after a hiatus spent caring for family, navigating the choppy waters of resume building and interviewing after a layoff or seeking a position that leaves you fulfilled instead of burnt out, read on for valuable insights from my interview with career coach Nic Frick.
We met where all meetings happen these days- on Zoom. She is streaming from her home in San Francisco, and I from my desk in the Seattle suburb of Mercer Island. We talked about the baby to toddler transition and how her newly bipedal (she started walking during our call!) 1 year old daughter has basically become a teenager.
“Where’s she going? Like, she has stuff to do now.”
We talked about the importance of values driven careers, confidence building and surrounding yourself with community. Nic offered valuable advice and resources to get past the biggest challenge women face when switching careers or getting back into the workforce, and why now is the best time to make lasting change in your work life.
We kicked off our interview with a discussion on Mom guilt, which I know so many of us can relate to, and how Nic felt that burden lessened because she loves what she does and her daughter is happily spending her days at daycare.
Nic Frick: Our career is important, but it’s not more important than the other parts of our life. If one is off balance, which oftentimes is the career, it can be stressful or keep us up at night. It makes all the other pieces harder.
If we have control over any of them, being really focused and figuring out what your ideal job is, then working towards that. It’s a path. As long as we’re feeling like we’re in our purpose and living our values in our career then [we’re doing] okay. And sometimes [the] value is “I need money” and that’s okay, [so] how do we make the other parts easier.
Stephanie Fonda: What are some of the biggest personal hurdles your clients are facing when they look to change careers. What’s stopping them from making the leap?
NF: I think the biggest challenge is their fear. It’s such a daunting thing because my clients haven’t had to look for a job in awhile. The last time they looked they didn’t do [any] values work or didn’t get laser focused on what they actually wanted, so they’re in the same spot they were two or three years ago.
Same spot, burnt out, looking for a job again, not taking lunch breaks, working on the weekends when they say they don’t want to and in a lot of suffering. [They feel] looking for a job seems so hard, so their biggest challenge is they don’t even know where to start. The fear starts around the resume, and then they get stuck there.
Exactly. Sometimes change is scarier than staying the same. We’re in a pandemic, why should someone think about shaking it up now?
NF: I think it’s a unique time because of the way 2020 has revealed a lot about our culture. With all the issues that have come up, it’s been a very introspective year for a lot of people, and the pandemic lends itself to getting really clear on what’s important to us right now.
Is it our career that’s important to us? What did we do while we were at home the whole time we were working, or not working? I think the pandemic has put a spotlight on what we need to prioritize, and I think that’s really special. And [if] that’s your career right now, I think a career [change] is a really good way to shift a lot of energy in our lives.
Prior to the pandemic, I was home with my kids for five years and thinking about all this. What advice would you give Moms reentering the work force?
NF: A lot of Moms think if they left the work force its going to be harder, but it is possible.
When I think about Moms at home who have been challenged by the pandemic [while raising families], I want them to choose companies that align with their family’s values.
If a company that we know of didn’t give any care leave, why would a parent ever want to work there? If you did a lot of social justice work during the pandemic and the company that you’re looking [at] doesn’t share those same values, then it’s not worth [pursuing] because that’s where the cycle continues to go.
We [tend to] choose companies based on what we think is available. We settle for things because it’s easy. If you really need a job, get one, but don’t stop looking. Get clear that you took this job because you need money and then later you can [find] that opening.
There’s a lot of pressure not to quit too soon or to have too many jobs, but I think if [you] get to talk to someone, you can structure the story in a way that is compelling and interesting to the person interviewing [you].
What are some concrete measures that women can look to as goal posts to get them to the job they want to be in?
NF: The first thing that everyone should do before a job change, is to start doing informational interviews immediately.
Talking to as many people as possible that have a job that you think you might like or a company that you think you might want to work at. Figure out if it aligns [with your values]. The secret for [informational interviews] is that it is for information, not for a job referral. It’s not for the expectation that you’ll get hired. It’s to learn more, and in that, you get to expand your network.At the end of those informational interviews, I encourage people to ask for [the name of another] person to talk to so that you’re always getting another person on your team.
One of the things I do a lot is a guided meditation, where I have [my client] imagine that they’re by themselves, [but then] they have that first informational interview. They have that person behind them, and not only that person, but their network, and it expands almost infinitely who is on your team, so you don’t ever feel alone. This is a group effort, this isn’t just me doing this all by myself.
I’ve never thought about it that way. It can be very isolating, as if it’s all up to me.
NF: You actually feel like you’re making progress. It really is the energy that you put into it. You want to meet new people and create this life, and in this life, you get to talk to more people- you’re collaborating, you’re having conversations.
I would encourage people to do one a week, at least, and to keep track of them. Don’t feel bad if no one responds to you and don’t feel weird about following up. We have Zoom at our fingertips, [so] it’s so much more acceptable to have a meeting on the computer now. You don’t have to be in the same time zone, you don’t have to grab coffee [in person]. You can grab virtual coffee.
[Another thing to do is] resume targeting. There’s a saying “Don’t spray and pray”, [which is] when you send a lot of resumes out without customizing them or just hoping you’re going to get it.
Be intentional about who you send your resume to.
Reach out to your network for the resume stuff too - people that you’ve worked with before and trust. Get their feedback, figure out what makes sense.
In terms of a timeline for a career change, how long does it take from the start of their work with you to getting where they want to go?
NF: It takes time. We have to be patient. A lot of different pieces of the puzzle appear when we’re trying to get closer to a job that aligns with our heart. The clients I talk to- we speak for two months and then we continue talking monthly to hold them accountable. It takes at least two or three months to start getting clear on how to do it. Interview coaching, helping them with their resume, and then also [managing] our inner critic that’s in the interview with you saying that you’re not good enough.
A couple of weeks ago, I had one of my workshops and this [participant] said “I don’t have the experience that they’re looking for” and they actually did. The next time you go in for this interview, tell your inner critic to chill out, you have this!
When you’re going into the interview, that person [inner critic] is also in the interview talking to the interviewer. It’s telling you you’re not good enough, so you’re saying “I’m not good enough” in whatever answer you’re giving. The monkey mind is destroying the whole plan.
That’s a huge hurdle, and from what I’ve read, as women it’s a lot harder. We look at a job posting, and if we don’t have 100% of those job qualifications, we don’t want to do it. We think, “Well, I guess I can’t get it”. When I think back to the jobs I’ve interviewed for, I was never 100% qualified, but everyone is going to be bringing something different to the party. It’s so rare that you’ll see a bunch of candidates where it’s apples to apples.
NF: A lot of times those job descriptions are set up in a way [where they’re] going to list everything under the sun, so that makes the list quite large, but if you really want it, try to get it! Why not?
And if you see a job you think you would love, find out if you know anyone who knows anyone working there. I say that separately from an informational interview because I do think [the informational interview is] is a very sacred magical thing. I think that gets a little dicey because some people see an informational meeting and think “Oh you want a job”, but [it’s really] “I just want to meet you.”
What are some other resources that you offer your clients either during your work, prior to working with you or after?
NF: A couple of books that I love are Big Magic by Liz Gilbert. I really like Break the Good Girl Myth by Majo Molfino and Burnout by “Emily and Amelia Nagoski.I also infuse a lot of tools for radical self-love in my private coaching, so at the end of our work together, my clients have a toolbox in their back pocket that they can refer to when needed.
You do workshops and private coaching, and there might be one off sessions. With all those different options, how do you approach that? Who needs what? How do you guide people into those slots?
NF: My workshops are free. I believe that it’s so important regardless of who you are, what your job is going to be, that you feel confident going into an interview and talking to a new person. I encourage that in the workshop through dance, meditation and through breakout sessions. In my workshops, you’re forced to get in your body to feel it, and you’re also forced to talk to new people spontaneously.
I try to replicate the feelings that happen in the interview into the workshop. I like to present that as tools, so that [participants] can feel the same confidence in the interview as they do in the workshop. I provide that because I believe it’s a very important skill for people to like doing it. This should be a skill we learn in school, which is why I offer it as a free option.
At that workshop, I [introduce] my private coaching, which is an opportunity to check me out to continue our work. I am not coming to this meeting as a sales call, it’s more like “is this a good fit for you and for me” and if it isn’t, I don’t take that personally. If its not a good match, I’m also going to suffer. I’m here to support who needs support and wants support from me specifically and if it’s not a good match, I also have a big network of coaches that could help them. I encourage people to speak to more than one coach.
My private coaching is personalized. . In our first meeting, we create your unique road map and determine what success looks like for you. What’s important for you right now? Some people just want to focus on career and some people want to have more self-care and self-love blended into it, and I make sure we stay connected to that as well.
I have another offering, which is “Courage, Careers & Coffee” and it’s going to be a monthly offering where anyone can show up with anything. If they feel like they need a pep talk in courage, we’ll talk through an issue that they’re having at work or at home, and it’ll be a safe Zoom space where people can come like an open house, where if you don’t have a problem or a challenge that week, you can learn from other people.
And find out that maybe you also have that challenge!
NF: It’s a courageous community of people. In [which] I would give on the spot coaching, and people in the room can offer advice, too.
It’s a little bit of a group therapy format. I love that. What is a success story of someone you worked with that really hit for you, where you felt that you were definitely doing what you were supposed to be doing?
NF: Every time I get a text message that says nothing else but “I got it”, I am moved to tears.
I am so encouraged by the people I get to work with by their big wins, but even more so, their small wins.
One of my favorite stories was a client who had been burnt out by her job for a long time and finally reached out for help because she’d gotten to a point where it was so paralyzing that she was working through lunch, and so were all the other employees she was working with. They actually had to punch out for their lunches even though they were working through them and not getting paid for it.
She was suffering and would sit at her desk the whole time and not even get up to make lunch and then feel exhausted because people were messaging her on her phone if she stepped away. All she really wanted to do was eat lunch or go for a walk.
The first thing we talked about was “what if you didn’t answer your messages during lunch?” and it was scary for her. She listed reasons why she couldn’t. “I support an executive”. “I’ll get in trouble”. “People will notice”. “They’ll think I’m a bad employee”. “They’ll tell someone about it and then I’ll have failed”.
So I said, what if tomorrow, just tomorrow, you don’t do it?
So she did that. She decided to try it for the rest of the week. The first day it was super hard. She said “I did it, and I told all my co-workers that I was going to take a lunch. And all my co-workers [said] “good for you. And then the next day I was too afraid and didn’t do it, and then I was mad that I didn’t do it.”
And so the next day she tried it again, and this time, her co-worker said “If you’re taking a break then I’ll cover you”, and she said “you don’t have to cover me, we’re all on lunch break now”. All of a sudden, things shifted, and people were noticing. And the next day she did it, and she did it half the time. And the next day a co-worker said, “If you’re going to take a lunch, I’m going to take a yoga class.”
And when she said that I actually got chills because that’s exactly what I’m looking for and what I think success is when we do things that seem small and hard and take courage. Like taking a lunch break. It creates a ripple effect that expands [to] something bigger than us. So it’s not just her taking a lunch, so that she could have a break and connect with her mental health and feel better and not feel mad, but her husband also has now a wife who takes lunch breaks. She’s more settled, [so] he’s more settled and then this other person who is doing yoga at lunch, her whole family or people she interacts with also have that impact.
I love getting people closer to their dream jobs. I love getting people their dream jobs and making friends with their inner critic, and what really stands out for me is how big an impact we can make on each other by just making small courageous changes.
I have spoken with various coaches, and it seems to be those small changes that are made in people’s lives end up impacting them in such a major way. They did something that was small but came at it with their whole heart and all the love and openness in the world and it worked. I get why you’re in the field that you’re in!
NF: It’s that she and I co-created it. I didn’t tell her that she needed to do it. I suggested it, and she was moved by it or decided to do it on her own. She could have said I’m not going to do that, and I would have said cool, let’s figure something else out that’s going to work for you [by] staying in the dance of the coaching relationship, where I’m not trying to force someone to do anything.
I’m trying to guide them to what they want their life to be like, and sometimes it doesn’t land and sometimes it does, and when it does- amazing. And if it doesn’t, also amazing because I become a better coach and we can figure out something else that will work. I love the co-creation of it.
I don’t think people give themselves enough permission, don’t realize how resourceful and creative we all are. We know how to course correct, and I think we forget that.
That’s the perfect place to end our interview. Thank you so much Nic!
Nic Frick is a coach for women who are totally ready for a new career path.
Through her private coaching, consistent IG lives, and regularly scheduled dance parties, she’s here to show you how to be confident throughout the job search rollercoaster - while making every step feel joyous, easy, and “right.”
And when she’s not reminding women of their brilliance you can find her happiest on a surfboard, writing snail mail to her loved ones, and giving the best hugs in the world (currently the only known competition is her toddler).
Transform your career (and life!) into exactly what you want at nicfrick.com
